UPDATED: Myths about McCain? How about myths about Democrats??
August 26, 2008
As much as I appreciate and am very flattered when more influential bloggers than me (i.e. anyone) takes the time to visit my backwoods blog, and even takes the effort to respond seriously to a post of mine, I have to do my best to treat everyone equally…
That being said, I take major exception to this post by Cernig, who appears to be temporarily posting at Crooks and Liars while John Amato is at the ObamaFest (I never noticed him before anyways, and C&L is one of my daily reads). He also has a blog I’m less familiar with, but have visited a couple of times (not enough to establish an opinion), called Newshoggers.
Anyways, now that the introduction is out of the way, I have to lay down my pre-emptive apologies:
- I do not think the issues I am complaining about are at all exclusive to Cernig or this post; they’re actually rampant, which is why I have such an issue with them;
- I absolutely hope that Cernig rips me back in turn. I do honestly look at this blog as an attempt at regaining some writing and analytical skill I believe I once possessed, so would welcome the constructive criticism;
- I really hope no one takes this post personally though. As with all my non-Yale-bashing criticism, I think as hard as we bloggers are on the MSM, we really have to keep our own house in order and look out for each other when we fail (by way of providing the impetus to hone our craft).
- Yes, I am a hypocrite. And yes, I’m working on it.
So we’re all friends now? Good.
So Cernig posts fairly extensively about an article in The Glasgow Herald about the shocking parity in the race between McCain and Obama (like me, the author seemed to think Obama would have a large lead by now).
I don’t think it’s fair to say that “the investment houses… finance the Republican party” as Iain McWhirter states in the past tense. As Michael Shedlock notes, as I recall, numerous times, principal figures in the investment industry are major supports of Barack Obama, particularly hedge funds. Here is one example pulled up by Mish of a Goldman Sachs banker whose contributions heavily favour Obama (I know one example does not make my point, however I’m sure I read a recent post from Mish that argued the major players in the financial industry were spreading their contributions in a manner to insure favourable treatment regardless who becomes the next President). The idea that only Republicans take corporate money to launder into larger sums of taxpayer money to be paid back to the corporations is naive. Both parties are massively guilty on that count (see my previous post on Joe Biden).
Another issue is the summary provided in the closing paragraphs by Cernig, which I frankly did not see in the original article (perhaps just an issue of misinterpretation on my part).
“That’s basically an admission from Kagan that a McCain foreign policy would consist entirely of looking for reasons to fight with Russia and China.”
THAT is a tremendous jump in logic and perhaps an intentionally sarcastic manner of phrasing Robert Kagan’s belligerence, or perhaps LIBERAL fear-mongering (yes, Liberals do it too) of the worst order. I am not saying John “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” McCain isn’t some sort of war nut, but that really wasn’t what Kagan was saying. Kagan was stressing the military threat of Russia and China, which seems odd considering China’s economic leverage over the USA is far more impressive, but it was not “basically an admission” that McCain would be throwing bags of flaming poop on either nation’s doorstep. It was only an expression of something between paranoia and slightly-misdirected vigilance (China’s large but practically obsolete Army consists of me and four friends). At least not based on the article’s contents. Let’s wait until he actually says it before we accuse him of it. Probably won’t have to wait too long.
The whole post seems to be largely a reiteration of the denigrating points (not to say they are not legitimate) in regards to John McCain’s latest run for the presidency. I feel that none of that information is likely to be of any value to a C&L reader, as those points are liberally sprinkled across every post since John McCain became the presumptive Republican nominee. The inclusion of those points merely reinforce the (I’d imagine) largely like-minded readers of C&L. When a blog creates this rah-rah environment, they drive away those that don’t agree entirely (I’ve been driven away by one unnamed major Liberal blog for that reason, despite its formidable ability to generate activism) and pretty soon the comments look like… well… the comments at C&L. Every comment I see on some posts is a pat-on-the-back, I-hate-McCain-too comment, and no one benefits from that.
At its best, it’s groupthink and onanism of opinion. At worst, it’s party-shilling.
(I apologize if this post was messy. My motorcycle is calling me)
UPDATE: I could not find the post from Mish (if I remember correctly) discussing the financial sector’s contributions to both McCain and Obama, however here is an article from muckraker Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone fame, containing this key measurement, and much more:
“Overall, Obama is flat-out kicking McCain’s ass when it comes to Wall Street contributions, raking in nearly $9 million from securities and investment executives, compared to $6.2 million for McCain.”
… and the cow goes moo
Hi Eshum,
Yes, Dems do it too. Not being a Dem either i can be just as critical of them as of the GOP. Hang arouynd, you’ll see it. But this election cycle is the first since 1990 when the financial industry has given more to Dems than the GOP. And usually its been a quite large gap.
(Source: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F)
As to Kagan, he said “The future international order will be shaped by those who have the power and the collective will to shape it.” In other words, the will to use that power. He also made it explicit he meant hard power – military power. His brother was in the UK at the same time advocating turning eastern European nations into armed “hedgehogs” to confront Russia with. You’re free to disagree with my assessment but that’s pretty unambiguous to me.
Regards, C
PS John asked me to join the team in the wake of Steve Benen’s departure so unless I piss John off I am hoping to be a permanent fixture at C&L. The nature of the beast there is that breaking foreign policy news and in-depth foreign affairs discussions don’t go down as well as domestic politics. Ah well. I do the bulk of my writing of that kind at Newshoggers still. We’ve a great team there, with Fester and BJ doing policy wonk stuff, Libby and Ron doing domestic politics and me trying to straddle the Pond with a transatlantic persepctive.
Regards, C
Thanks for the reply; there’s always this great sense of trepidation after writing a post like that: If the author doesn’t reply, then I can’t tell if I’ve misinterpreted or misrepresented the author (or I’ve made an enemy and can be expecting anonymous attack comments shortly). I do appreciate that you are providing reasoned comments in reply to my post.
First, congratulations on the new night job! I hope you use the very significant megaphone C&L provides to improve the level of discourse in the committed Liberal community (I’m sorry that I can’t imagine C&L’s readership extending too far beyond that, at least not during campaign season). C&L certainly has a very impressive blogger line-up and I’m happy to see someone who is willing to defend his posts in tiny blogs like mine elevated to that readership, even if we likely disagree on many issues.
Now to the actual debate at hand…
1) I’m interpreting your first paragraph as an agreement with me on the factual basis of my claim re: campaign contributions from the financial industry to both parties (despite my inability to find the reference source, I did append the post with a different reference a minute ago). If we’re in at least rough agreement on that point, do you agree with me that furthering the (likely) commonly held misconception that Obama is somehow less beholden to, or less supported by, the big investment banks is a major issue of accuracy? Inaccuracies, I have many. However I believe this breed of inaccuracy is important as it’s especially easy to get away with (coincides with a stereotype of both Republicans and Obama).
This may be a personal beef, though I have trouble imagining I could be alone, but that kind of comment that is arguably untrue, yet presented to an audience that is very uncritical about that brand of claim (anything anti-Conservative at a solidly Liberal blog) contributes to creating these huge fissures in informational bases between the supporters of the political parties. I can understand when Democrats and Republicans don’t get along in the houses of government (after all, they’re just children), but it does bother me that we have so much trouble engaging in discourse as just plain citizens. And I think propagating the impression that the Republicans are THE party (and not one of the two parties) beholden to big business is injurious to the chances that citizens will ever have that discussion.
2) On the second point you addressed: I was at least partially wrong there; I chose to confine my response to the captions quoted in your post, and the context provided therein. To that extent, I do not think “That’s basically an admission from Kagan that a McCain foreign policy would consist entirely of looking for reasons to fight with Russia and China.” And I was unaware of his brother making the “hedgehogs” remark.
Now this is going to be nitpicking, admittedly, but:
2a) “Looking for reasons…” is very different from believing in a threat. And I think it is at least understandable, even if you (and I) do not feel this way, to view Russia and China as threats to American hegemony. I certainly differ with Kagan, but still feel the interpretation is unfair based on the source material at The Herald.
2b) Where is this ‘hedgehogs’ remark (I did a search for “Frederick Kagan Hedgehog” and did not find it. Don’t tell me there’s another Kagan brother…) and is it even relevant? The brothers do appear to be simpatico in worldview, however now we’re using Frederick Kagan’s remark to provide context for McCain advisor, Robert Kagan’s, statement? And combining the two to divine John McCain’s foreign policy beliefs? Do you see where I take issue with that? It takes active effort for me to string that bit of logic together (and I’m already favourably-primed, as I believe John McCain does view the world with the USA in a never-ending police role). That suggests to me that you chose the most sensationalistic (and frightening) manner of framing Kagan’s (whichever’s) remark.
*** I apologize for the length of this comment; I understand this argument likely means more to me than it does to you, so I tried to be thorough so you wouldn’t have to rely on more clarification from me in subsequent comments. I absolutely feel that I am nitpicking, as a blog post is not a New York Times article (and even if my arguments have substance, I doubt that would stop the NYT from making the same arguments in an op-ed), however I do honestly believe that blogs can’t merely target the MSM and opposition-party blogs without directing their sights at one another. That is, if we care about the state of media discourse as much as we pretend to. Thanks again, Cernig. C&L is likely to remain a daily read of mine for a while, so I look forward to reading more of your posts. I’ll make an effort to pick my next fight with Amato…
Please feel very free to tell me you feel that I am seeing this wrong. I’d appreciate the correction, as both claims I’ve made I do feel seriously about.
… the metacow
[...] 5, 2008 I’m glad I’m not shitting on another Cernig post, as I really did appreciate his bothering to reply to my previous criticism, however I do have a [...]
Hi again,
1) I’m rather less of an Obama booster than many others in the “liberal” blog spectrum. He reminds me a little too much of Tony Blair. Then again, like Blair, he’s better than any of the mainstream alternatives. Give me Bernie sanders as Prez and I’d be happier. But you won’t get an argument from me that many gloss over his faults to hype his plusses – which is true of almost all partisans.
2) the other Kagan was Fred indeed. It was in an interview recently with the UK’s Daily Telegraph, to which I’ve lost the link.
I’ve enjoyed this discussion. I’m a small blogger (check out Newshoggers sometime, please) and talking with other small bloggers is always fun.
Regards, C
Thanks for the reply, Cernig. I appreciate the back and forth and am glad it doesn’t appear you’ve taken offense.
And I do apologize if I paint you a bit more partisan than you are; I do base this almost entirely on your postings at C&L which, I think you’ll agree, tend to paint you a bit more in line with the Democratic party than you may actually be.
… the metacow
And I will check out Newshoggers (I’ve visited once or twice so far). It certainly sounds like a blog that is more in line with my own thinking anyways (for better or for worse… I actually try to avoid too many sites that are going to reinforce what I already think).
[...] “Financial firms have dominated donor lists for all the major political candidates in the 2008 US presidential election“. That’s an actual quote. Am I being too cynical when I say that the thinking behind the The Great Bailout, as well as the lax vigilance that preceded it, will continue regardless who wins the election? (A previous post touching on the campaign contributions can be found here) [...]
[...] This is related to my previous posts about (specifically) the financial industry backing Barack Obama has received so far (a link to my earliest post on the subject). [...]
[...] responded to a couple of attacks on McCain that I felt were unfair in the past (a post from the end of August where a C&L blogger attributed a closeness to John McCain’s dealings with the financial [...]